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Northall Inn c1540?

November 9, 2009 by Martin in forum Genealogy / History

#71 Martin, 9 November 2009, 18:15

I'm interested in all that there is to be found about Northall Inn. It has to be one of the older buildings in the parish. When was it built? I'm told 1540. what for? The whos & when & whats. Also its  modern history - the last 50-60 years and photos even from the 70s and 80s. Of course it was a pub, but it was a farmhouse too (I think). I see Bernie has  the register. The listing for the  NI would be a start. Bernie, happy to donate to your chosen charity

#72 Bernie, 10 November 2009, 10:44

Not really my field.I have been in contact with a couple of people and Beds Record Offiice but no good.Found census for 1891, 1881 and 1871 but nothing before.If these are any good to you I will forward them.Will try Bucks Records Office in Aylesbury.

#73 Bernie, 10 November 2009, 13:40

I have spoken to Bucks Records Office and they have records for pubs in Northall.Could be worth a visit. Found four pubs in Northall going back to the 1861 census.The Swan,still there,The vine which is just after the Meads Brook in Northall Rd,The Wrestlers Inn,a private house and another which is not named that I take to be the original Northall Inn.
There is a story in my family that an ancestor was sick of being barred from the village pubs so he opened his own.Might be the case here.
Bernie

#74 Bernie, 10 November 2009, 14:48

Maybe these names will help in your search

1901 Census
The Village Green Leighton Rd
Harry Scott, Head, 22 ,Butcher/Beer House Keeper,Northall Bucks.
Lucy Scott,Sister,24,House Keeper/Pub,Northall Bucks.
George Scott,Cousin,24 Ag Lab,Kilburn Middlesex.

1891 Census
Leighton Rd
John Scott,Head,43,Licensed Victualler,Northall Bucks.
Sara A Scott,Wife,43,Edlesborough Bucks.
Edward Scott,Son,16,Ag Lab,Northall Bucks.
Lucy Scott,Daughter,14,Northall Bucks.
Harry Scott,Son,15,Northall Bucks.
Frank Scott,Son,10,Scholar,Northall Bucks.
Lilly Scott,Daughter,8,Northall Bucks.
John Scott,Son,5,Northall Bucks.
George Scott,Nephew,14,Ag Lab,Kilburn Middlesex.
Fred Eastaff,Lodger,40,Gen Lab,Northall Bucks.

1881 Census
Side Of Road
Hannah Newman,Head,57,Innkeeper,Northall Bucks.
Edward Newman,Son,16,Apprentice?Northall Bucks.
Mary Newman,Visitor,57,Dressmaker,Berkhampsted Herts.

1871 Census
No Address
Noah Newman,Head,51,Beer Seller,Northall Bucks.
Hannah Newman,Wife,47,Northall Bucks.
Edward Newman,Son,6,Northall Bucks.
Thomas Scott,Boarder,57,Northall Bucks.
John Scott,Boarder,27,Northall Bucks

1861 Census
No Address
John Costin,Head,76,Victuller,Northall Bucks.
Elizabeth Costin,Grandaughter,24,Housekeeper,Northall Bucks.
John Scott,Grandson,14,Ag Lab,Northall Bucks.
John Scott,Boarder,72,Horse Dealer,Eaton Bray Beds.
David Sear,Lodger,56,Ag Lab,Aston In Ivinghoe.

Cant find anything for what could be The Northall Inn before 1861

#910 Martin, 7 May 2011, 22:44

Wow!! Northall Inn used to be called the 'Village Green Inn' the green itself is opposite, and it is now used by the farm. It is not so apparent that it is the 'green' so I suspect its the reason for the name change. I am sure waht we have on the census is one of the same. I've found Butchers hooks in the footings to waht si now the outbuildings. "Harry Scott, Head, 22 ,Butcher/Beer House Keeper,Northall Bucks." must have been our butcher and mislaid a few.  I've heard the outbuildings whr used fora shop and Post office , so it fits together well enough.Well done Bernie Thankyou!

#912 Bernie, 9 May 2011, 08:44

Hi Martin...You may have some luck if you contact English Heritage.The Northall Inn was listed as a grade 2 listed building on 26th September 1951. English Heritage Building ID 42014.Listed as The Village Green Inn.

#985 Martin, 28 September 2011, 21:53

Bernie. You have been busy, thank you. As a Grade 2 I've seen the listing. It tells, well,  not a lot really -  Pevsner gave it a look in 1951 as 'The Village Green Inn'. Noted for the ornamented beam. Not much else.

And the Village Green after which it was named?   is still common land, I think, and the only person that uses the grazing rights or for anything come to that,  is the farm.

A few years back, a timber-frame enthusiast came round,  (he had the beard and the sandals, which must make him a real one) thus we have the date  as 1540...

...finished on a Tuesday it was.

I've heard it had been the farmhouse for the land around here. After  heavy rain,  you can see the rainwater puddle in  long 150+ foot strips in the field outside our window. That  says very old land workings to me. Medieval.

Of course now, the 'farmhouse-proper' is next door. "Cant find anything for what could be The Northall Inn before 1861" you say? The 'new' house looks very mid Vicky, so that adds some verification to the farmhouse story, likely explains why you can't see it as a pub. Pubs and Churches have to be the more prominent buildings to a village, And the fact that you can't see this  clearly as a pub I think should show, is telling. The farmer had a shiny new house.
Likely it went into a pub usage  around then.  

#996 Martin, 28 September 2011, 22:02

I further hedge this, I could never see it as purpose built for a pub. Pubs face the road and are not set back, and in 450 odd years whilst the road could have moved that's very unlikely. Now could it have been diverted away from our front door? No I can't see it. And the  other Grade 2 timber frame (my neighbour) now No.14 has to be of very similar age, and that too is set back, same distance. So I buy the farmhouse story all the more.

My favourite external feature of this house are the highly ornate wood carvings. Two great big oak friezes they are. Another 'story' is that they are 'war-booty'. from the Armada.
I am sure of this bit, they are definitely not English, very Spanish or French in over-embellishment. 6-7 foot long, and 10" high, and certainly big enough to be nautical. And very, very similar to those  on the walls to the 'Listed' visible on the Hockliffe crossroads.  Armada war-booty?, we'll never know, either way, it's a great story, so I'll choose to believe it...

By the way, there ARE fairies at the bottom of the garden... and Queen Liz  slept here etc etc.

I'd love to see pictures of this house as a pub, There must be pictures of weddings and birthdays from the 50s 60s 70s 80s and 90s.

So for now, we have a butchers and a pub, and the plot thickens.

#997 Martin, 28 September 2011, 22:13

Pictures?
I've seen sevral postcards, all making Edlesborough church the focal point, but never anything in Northall. I live in hope. Frith's have a postcard from 1965 of the Village Green in Northall, that is as near as I've ever got to an old picture of Nortahll.

#1005 Theo Gray, 29 September 2011, 07:26

I can offer one of the exterior from the early 90s (click for larger version):

© Theo Gray

#1006 Martin, 30 September 2011, 14:38

Wow!!!! Thank you, thank you, thank you! You don't know how much joy that pic has given me!!! Whoopeee!! It's solved so many riddles. I love it. Truly love it. More than just 'any' house, this building is my passion. It has something very few buildings possess, real atmosphere  and nothing fake. It's says ENGLAND and all I love about my country. I KNEW a picture like this existed, somewhere.

How did you happen to get it?

It will help me too. I'm trying to solve what happened around the front door. There were some carved lions that sat almost as sentries either side of the front door. Not the door behind the cars, the one facing the courtyard. I wnat to know how they were fixed.

This building is not mine, it is the nation's, I just look after it. Please say you have a hi-res of this pic?

Either way, thank you, thank you, thank you. I'm so excited.

#1007 Theo Gray, 1 October 2011, 08:13

The photo was one of a number I took around Northall when I lived there in the early 1990s so I have a negative somewhere and 4"x3" prints.

It was my first proper camera so they're not wonderful quality, but I'm happy to scan it in at a higher resolution for you. (Once I find which box I put it in for safe keeping!)

#1013 Martin, 2 October 2011, 18:45

Theo

Thank you so much. Whatever you have would be grand, and with due consideration to whatever it costs you to do this, I'm gladly happy to pay. As for "Not wonderful quality", Pah! You have it don't you?? How can I ever complain!

Thanks Martin

#1017 Theo Gray, 6 October 2011, 15:14

Hello Martin,

Sorry for the delay, but I've now rescanned that image plus another which was taken from a slightly different position; unfortunately they're not much higher quality than before, but hope they are of use to you:

  1. Original Image
  2. Slightly different position

#1018 Theo Gray, 6 October 2011, 15:22

Martin - I'm happy to let you borrow the negatives / have a copy of the original prints if you would be able to get a higher resolution copy from them - you can use the "Contact Us" link at the top of the page to send me a message with your address.

#1274 Fran Thomson, 7 August 2012, 23:05

So nice to read this thread, all the Scotts & Costins mentioned in Bernie's census' are ancestors of mine, great to see the pic of Northall Inn, I'll add it to my data if that's ok. An excellent site too, keep up the good work.

#1350 jrt, 11 September 2012, 21:23

I worked at the northall inn for a number of years, and yes it was call the village green, the northall inn and the last tenant called it something that took the micky out of the farm next door(don't want to go there) The inn is 1500, but is  unfortunately now now a private house. It was a coach house the small buildings in front of the picture where once an arch way far right of picture so coach and horses could turn round. The farm next door is home farm and has been in the Prat family for generations.

#1351 Martin, 11 September 2012, 22:22

JRT: Great to hear from you, someone else lives their now, I've moved on, but still hanker after that palce. So you worked there? What period are we talking about? When I first moved there, Ivy would come to feed the cats at the rear, she lived in Church Lane, she said she used to work there too, I take it you knew her?

When i moved in (c2001) an archway had recently been made where the two windows in the white outbuilding are in the pic, which was 'after' thsi pic was  been taken. I since bricked that arch  back up to return it to pretty much how you see it in this pic. It now has an single window there. I'm confused, are you talking abnout the same arch (the one I filled back in) or another prior to this pic?

So, how far are we going back here?

#1353 Martin, 11 September 2012, 22:55

i dear, spotted my typo. I do know my 'their' from my 'there', honest...

#1670 Home farm, 8 May 2013, 15:47

The second door down the east side is known as peters door, would be the only door he would use. The wood story is plausible, our oldest barn is made from old shipyard wood, I think it was quite normal?
I don't think it was ever a farmhouse, it was always a coach house which were known as inns back then.
Pratt has two T's ...

#2288 Jack Costin, 28 April 2015, 11:48

My great great grandfather was John Costin and I found an advert in the Bucks Herald for the pub's sale when he died in 1864. It didn't appear to have a name but was known "by the sign of the Sawyers". The sale was held at the Old Wrestlers, another pub in Northall owned by his son Fred.

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