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Nelly / Nellie Dyer

July 11, 2010 by Vanessa Evans in forum Genealogy / History

#427 Vanessa Evans, 11 July 2010, 14:12

Looking for any information regarding who Nelly / Nellie Dyer, born as per register Jan Feb Mar 1889 Luton, might have married.

Up until a few weeks ago, our family didn't know she existed.  She was the sister of my gr grandmother Ethel May Dyer 1886 - 1952. Whom immigrated to Australia in 1920. Daughter to Eliza Ann Dyer (Who married Alfred Turpin in 1896) an died in 1901 giving birth to her son.  After Eliza's death Nelly / Nellie went to live with ex neighbours of Eliza's Albert and Emma Brooks and their children at 27 Grove Road, Luton.

In 1891 Eliza, Ethel and Nelly lived at 17 Church Walk, Dunstable.

Any information on Nelly after 1901 would be appreciated. Marriage? Children? Death?  And if you know her fathers name a bonus.

Thank you in advance to anyone able to help me.

#428 Tom n Harry, 11 July 2010, 20:03

Vanessa…
Couldn’t find a Nellie Dyer on 1911 census so searched for a marriage…
There is one reg Luton June 1906 vol 3b page 1000 to maybe a George Edmunds…
Searched 1911 again for Edmunds with a Nellie born in Dunstable and living with them and got…George age 26 , Cyril age 2 and Dorris Age 4. Nellie is age 24. Sorry I have no credits at the moment but may have some soon….
Found another birth with name Edmunds and mothers maiden name Dyer in Bedfordshire……Reg September 1911 Gladys I vol 3b page 661….Birth reg for Cyril George December 1906 Luton vol 3b page 367 and for Doris May June 1908 Luton vol 3b page 391…
Maybe your Nellie but don’t know…

#429 Tom n Harry, 11 July 2010, 20:10

More births to Edmunds with mothers maiden name Dyer......Bernard s Luton December 1917 3b 480...Eva E Luton March 1920 3b 800...Ernest A Luton March 1924 3b 564...

#430 Tom n Harry, 11 July 2010, 20:22

Possible death....Nellie Edmunds with a birth date of 11th December 1888 died reg March 1973 Luton 4a 512...

#431 Vanessa Evans, 11 July 2010, 22:58

Thank you so much for all the information.  I didn't know that the 1911 Census was available, I had been going through the www.ancestry.com, but they only went to 1901.  It was a wonderful surprise just to find out she had a sister, then later more half siblings.  I don't even believe that my grandmother was aware of her mother having any siblings, she never spoke of any.  Amazing what was kept and never spoken about in those times.  Again thank you for all your help, with Nellie and also when you helped me with Eliza Ann.

#433 Vanessa Evans, 12 July 2010, 07:10

Tom n Harry, with the extra information you supplied me, I was able to find a family tree, already established and gained some more information.  Thank you so much, without your help, I would have still been looking.

#436 Colin Bird, 12 July 2010, 20:47

Hi Vanessa,
I am very interested in Ethel May Dyer, I Knew one of our Relations Emigrated to Australia, But was told it was Alice Dyer, now you seem to have unravelled the mystery. Have you any more information on Ethel May Dyer, as I am sure this is the person I have been trying to track down. Regards Colin.

#437 Vanessa, 12 July 2010, 22:15

Hello Colin,

Yes I have a lot of information, as Ethel May Dyer was my great grandmother. I have put some information below, if you want more I have a family tree at ancestry.com under Rawlings / Pieraccini - Matheson (Mathieson) / Dyer Family Trees. It is a public tree, so you should be able to see most information. If not let me know.  


Ethel May Pieraccini (Dyer)

Birth 23 August 1886
in St. Marys St Dunstable Luton England
Death 9 June 1952
in Crows Nest, New South Wales, Australia

Step Father - Alfred Turpin (1862-1906)    
Mother - Eliza Ann Dyer (1866-1901)  

Sister - Nelly Edmunds (Dyer) (1888-1973)


Half Siblings - Percy Mark Turpin (1896-1953)
Florence Annie Turpin (1899-)
Thomas Turpin (1901-1901)

Eliza died giving birth to Thomas.


Step Siblings through marriage.

Nellie Turpin (1883-)
Mabel Turpin (1886-1976)

Alfred William Turpin (1893-) Harold / Harry Turpin (1894-)



Husband of Ethel - Peter Pieraccini (1885-1916)  

Children.

Peter Pieraccini (1907-1977)   Gerald V Pieraccini (1909-1985)   Ethel Rose PIERACCINI (1911-1965)  
Robert H PIERACCINI (1912-)    
Ivy Nellie Pieraccini (1914-2005)  
Bertie P PIERACCINI (1916-1988)

After the death of her husband Peter in WWI at France, Ethel immigrated to Western Australia in 1920 with her children, later moving to Sydney and the Milsons Point, McMahons Point and North Sydney Areas.

Since starting my search, I realise that many family members through their branches off of the family still live in the Luton Bedfordshire area.

I am still trying to find more information on Ethel's mother Eliza Ann Dyer and her parents and siblings, but this is what I have already, that might help.

Parents.

Richard Dyer (1844-1900)  
Phillis Maria Brandham (1842-1926)  

Siblings.

Jesse Dyer (1862-1937)
Frederick Dyer (1868-)
Alice Dyer (1870-)
Samuel Dyer (1878-)
Ada Dyer (1879-)
Sarah Dyer (1881-)
Ernest Sidney Dyer (1886-)

Hope this helps you, any more information you might need, I can see what I have and let you know.

What is your connection to the family?

Take care

Vanessa.

#438 Colin Bird, 13 July 2010, 09:08

Hi Vanessa,
Thanks for the information, I can now move on from there. My connection to the family is that my Grandmother was Ada Dyer who was Eliza Ann's sister. Which probably makes us distant cousins. Regards Colin.

#439 Vanessa, 13 July 2010, 09:43

Wonderful, do you have any information on Ada that I might be able to add to my tree. I don't have anything other than her birth and that she possibly got married in 1904??

#440 Vanessa, 13 July 2010, 09:56

This might also help you, if you don't already have the information.


Richard Dyer's parents -

Thomas Dyer (1797-1874)  
Maria ? (-)  

Brothers of Richard -

William DYER (1835-1955)
James DYER (1837-1913)
Samuel DYER (1840-)
Charles DYER (1847-)
Jesse DYER (1849-1867)

Phillis's parents -

James Brandham (1811-)  
Sarah ?(1811-)  

Siblings -

Frederick Brandham (1832-)
William Brandham (1834-)
Sarah Ann Brandham (1847-)
Alfred Brandham (1850-)

Did the family continue to live in Luton?  Is that where you are from?

#441 Tom n Harry, 13 July 2010, 10:31

Vanessa...Colin....

Have a contact in oz who helped me a great deal a while ago.I will email her to see if she can help with Ethel May.

#442 Tom n Harry, 13 July 2010, 10:49

Vanessa...Do you know who went to Oz with Ethel.I have just found 6 possible births for Pieraccini in Luton and also 1 in 1905.

#443 Vanessa, 13 July 2010, 11:39

Hey Tom n Harry,

Yes Ethel left with her 6 children, they were:

Peter Pieraccini (1907-1977)

Gerald V Pieraccini (1909-1985)

Ethel Rose PIERACCINI (1911-1965)

Robert H PIERACCINI (1912-)

Ivy Nellie Pieraccini (1914-2005)

Bertie P PIERACCINI (1916-1988)

I did find out a lot of information Tom n Harry, after your first help, when I was looking for Eliza Ann Dyer, I thank you so much for that.

What I would dearly love to know is who Eliza Ann Dyer was working for as a domestic servant in 1885, then I might get a clue as to who the father of her two daughters Ethel and Nellie was.  The story that I know is that Eliza became pregnant to the Head of the House she was working for and that he was possibly German heritage, but who knows.

#446 Colin Bird, 13 July 2010, 16:20

Hi Vanessa,
Ada Dyer was born 09.01.1879 in Dunstable I think the marriage date might be out, as their first born was Eva 17.09.1897. Ada married George Mead born 24.09.1875 Houghton Regis they had five children Eva above, Reginald 25.03.1902, Ada (my Mother) 29.05.1905, William 23.06.1909, Fred 15.11.1913. Ada died 11.10.1950 George died 17.07.1956. Both are buried in West Street, Dunstable.

#447 Tom n Harry, 13 July 2010, 17:17

Vanessa....A lady from Beds Records Office has been working all afternoon and found the baptism record for Ethel.She was baptised only as Ethel Dyer and not Ethel May Dyer at The Priory Church Dunstable Beds 6th October 1886.It has as fathers name Joseph Smith,Labourer... BUT...This was crossed out.Mothers name was then put down as Eliza Ann,Single Woman...Could be one of three things...A genuine mistake by the vicar or Eliza told him fathers name but then told him she was not married or she just got the hump and tried to drop Joseph in it...Looked for Joseph on census in Dunstable 1881 and 1891 but not there.Found lots of Joseph Smiths in Bedfordshire but no way of knowing which one he is or if he existed...As yet no baptism record for Nellie.

#448 Vanessa, 14 July 2010, 04:40

Thank you so much for all the extra information.  I am trying to do all this and put together (eventually) a book so that my two daughters will have it in the future to hand down to their children etc...  I did notice when trying to go through ancestry.com that some of the information and others trees, never had any supporting evidence/documents, so in all honesty, I didn't want to connect it to my tree, if it was only just a maybe.  So getting this information first hand from you both, if extremely appreciative.  

#449 Tom n Harry, 14 July 2010, 07:59

Hi Vanessa...I think the only way to find out where Eliza was living in 1886 is to send for Ethels birth cert.Some certs had the street address on them and you might get lucky....Ethel May Dyer reg September 1886 Luton vol3b page 414.

#450 Vanessa, 14 July 2010, 10:34

Ok, Thank you.

#451 Vanessa, 15 July 2010, 08:55

Tom n Harry,

I was able to find out that the address on Ethels birth certificate states at time of her birth Eliza was living at:

St Mary's Street, Dunstable.

Luton, Bedfordshire.

Mother Eliza Ann Dyer, single, domestic servant. No fathers name mentioned.

#452 Tom n Harry, 15 July 2010, 09:55

Searched St Marys St Dunstable in 1881 census.A few people boarding in the street but cant find a live in servant.Dont think it was where Eliza worked.Will check 1891 to see if street has changed but I doubt it has.

#453 Colin Bird, 15 July 2010, 11:00

Hi Vanessa,
Regarding Eliza May being in service,I have some information (not corroborated) its just a story relayed to me by my Mother. Now I don't really want to post the info on the site as it may not be correct. I wonder if I gave you my Email we could swap notes that way. Regards Colin.

#454 Vanessa, 15 July 2010, 12:38

Thank you Tom n Harry.

Yes Colin, that would be great. My email is [email protected]

Tom n Harry, do you know of any site/link where you can see maps of the 1800's, that give you details as to what areas were lower class, middle class, upper class?

#457 Colin Bird, 15 July 2010, 19:39

Hi Vanessa,
I don't think St Mary's street is the area to look, my Grandparents lived at number 73, and they were terraced houses two up two down sort of places. Not the sort of houses that would have had servants. West street would be a more suitable area. I may be wrong of course. Regards Colin

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