Use of the Rye Recreation Ground

Whilst I think this an excellent idea, when I was on the PC in the 1990's this was, I believe a village green and therefore could not be fenced in in anyway. Can I ask if the PC have checked to make sure that nobody can cause the fence suggest to be taken down.
Ross bagni

Although I understand that Eaton Bray Lions want to expand I do not believe that a village green that also occupies its postion in the green belt is the place to errect an all weather football pitch that will be enclosed by a 4.5 metre fence around 6 goals and a 3 metre fence in-between.  In addition there will be six 8 metre high floodlights; the facility will be operational 7 days a week until 10pm on weekdays and 9.30pm at weekends.  In addition the football club plan to have a 'new steel shipping container' to house the equipment needed to maintain the pitch.  I would also like to ask whether there has been enough public consultation about this; certainly the public consultation document in the February issue of The Focus, page 43) did not include the above details and in addition were the proposers of the plans to develop the all weather football pitch.  This does suggest a conflict of interests.  
I believe a village green should be for the use of all members of the community and is illegal to fence in any way; incidently this was attempted a number of years ago and the fence was made to be taken down.

I think the all weather pitch will be a great benefit to the young people of our village. The village green is under used at the moment and as I understand the situation the details of usage of the pitch have not yet been agreed and will be determined by a lease between the parish council and eaton bray lions. I wish anybody against this project who I assume live opposite or near the village green would state the real reasons for their concerns which I suspect is more to do with noise or light pollution and fears about traffic which are perfectly legitimate concerns, rather than hiding behind potential village green usage legalities and gossip. I hope members of the parish council keep their bottle and continue to support this venture

In reply to the last comments of villager . I would like to point out that several houses on the high st have been flooded over the years , and i dont see that putting an astroturf surface will help the situation .

Anon, the Rye recreation ground borders on Totternhoe Road/the Rye/Green Lane.

The high street starts at Northall Road/The comp, a good half mile down the road

Totternhoe Road , The Rye and Dyers Road have all been flooded at one time or another over the last few months.

The rye is the natural home for football in the village.

Build a fantastic footballing facility and let the world stand back in wonder.

If you want to see what one of these monstrosities looks like go to the top of frenchs avenue in dunstable .I dont know why they dont apply to build one in edlesborough as it seems most of of the people who want it come from there .

I think this would be a fanatastic footballing facility. There has always been a football pitch there and there were once floodlights too.Why would you move in around a village green if you don't like to hear others having fun doing physical activities? I'm all for it, we live opposite a recreation ground ourselves with skate park and wouldn't care if it was going up there.

Benefits to the village
1.An all-weather facility is important for the local youth football players to allow their training/ coaching to take place throughout the year. the green is meant to be enjoyed by all not just local youth footballers.
2.The facility would be available to the local primary schools to use during the week to support the delivery of the PE curriculum and extra-curricular activities. The shared use of the facility would also strengthen school-club links. For the facility to be used by the school, surely changing and toilet facilities must be present?? as these are not currently onsite, i can not see the school using the facility. Furthermore, transport to the facility would need to be provided which would restrict the number of school children able to attend the facility.
3.The provision of an all-weather pitch would reduce wear on the current grass pitches which are being used for training and matches. Is wear and tear an issue with the current pitch? would this not come down to ground keeping and rotating trainnig seasons? and building an astroturf a hugh over reaction.
4.Without a local all-weather pitch facility it is considered that the club's continued development would be hindered. Astroturf facilities are available at Dunstable and at tring, which at most are a 15 minute drive away. By having the proposed facility how much is the club expected to grow?

Other queries
5.Who is to pay for the up keep and maintenance of the facility? 6. How can the facility be booked out to other clubs? are Eaton Bray Lions going to run training sessons sunday to sunday throughout the year?.
7. What provisions are being made for other sports in the village?
8. What other areas have been considered to build the above facility?
9. Who is responsible legally for the facility and the safety of those whouse it?
10. Would you really class over 1700m2 a small part of the village green?? if so, can i build a small house down the road!

Whats happened to the villager gone back to his town or what ?

Has anyone visited the Green lately? This morning there were numerous hoof indents around the edges of whole Green, before the footballers training session began. I still enjoyed using the existing facility though.

anon, What's your point?

I find it quite disgraceful that a floodlit football pitch is to be built in the middle of lovely countryside. All the people who have purposefully purchased a house surrounded by fields, away from "town life" are to have their quiet enjoyment of their home and surroundings spoiled by noise and floodlights.
How long until the village turns into an extension of Dunstable town centre?
Developments such as this should be saved for towns instead of spoiling a village.
Very disappointing.

Everyone moaned when the tennis club applied for floodlights, now no one even notices. People were hysterical about the skate park! but it's proved to be a great success. Do they propose building a nuclear dump on the rye? no just a football pitch.

June-its quite obvious that you live nowhere near the recreation ground. Let them install 8 meter high floodlights at the bottom of your garden and see how quickly you start objecting. Flood lights arent appropriate in villages/rural locations. Build a pitch, thats fine. Just leave the floodlights out of it!!!

Hear hear at last the voice of reason .

Does anyone know why Central Beds site now has planning application listed as "Consultation Period" when for months it was listed as "Awaiting decision"

anon you nimby I couldn't care less if it was.

Villager it has taken you a long while to respond. Have you been away? Perhaps you dont live in the village at all . That is why you dont mind it being destroyed .

On the EB Lions site dated 24/10/12 there is an announcement saying they have planning permission for the build.
After speaking to Central Beds Planning this morning I have been told that they haven't.
A decision has not yet been made.

Attended the Parish Council meeting and asked the question as to why the posting on EB Lions site had been posted.
Was not told why but was told it would be removed.
Also told that this was a private matter and not to do with Parish Council even though this is their application.

Bit confused.

Well Bernie i would have thought it was obvious. Eb Lions website is operated by them and not the Parish council. Whilst the PC have made the application what is put on the website is out of their control.

Hi Nimbys

I quite agree that the PC have no control over the Lions website.
My confusion comes from the fact that when the question was asked on Monday night the reaction from the PC was that this was a private matter.
I would have thought that the partnership between the PC and the Lions would have made it a public matter.
The PC moniter this website and should have known in advance of Mondays meeting.

I would like to add that I am not a PC basher and in fact have had a great deal of help from them over the years.I think they do a difficult job well.
Just don't agree with them on this.

do they 'monitor' the website? sounds a bit big brother to me. If the website is solely in the hands of EB lions then it is a private matter. In the same way that something relating to this placed on the Parish council website would not be passed by EB Lions first and they would have no say on any content. If as they say it was an error then the way it got into the public domain will be a private matter for them.

A member of the PC said today that they moniter the site and so they should.If something incorrect is posted it should be corrected.
I don't know how much money,if any has been spent on the application by the PC but if i were a surporter of this project I would want to know what action was taken to rectify a false statement by a partner.
The PC are there as my representatives and if you live in Eaton Bray they are also yours.

After doing a small amount of research into the maintenance costs, here is what the FA advise:

Annual maintenance costs of £9,000 - 11,000

Extras

Rejuvenation of surface (after 5-6 years) - £30,000

Replace surface after life span (average life span 10 yrs) - £150,000

please note, these are present day costs and do not account for inflation of equipment.

With the parish council leasing the site for a recommended 21 years at a peppercorn rent (£100 per year from councellor on three counties radio this morning(total of £2,100)

by my calculations
annual maintenance = say 9k x 21yrs = 189,000
rejuvenation = twice over 21 yrs @ £30,000/ea = £60,000
replace surface = twice over 21 yrs @ 150,000/ea = £300,000

total maintenance for 21 yrs excluding inflation

£549,000.00

So my question to the councellors would be, who is going to pay for the additional maintenance costs of £546,900.00 over the proposed 21 year lease of the site?

Surely EB Lions cannot afford this.

Furthermore, no consideration has been given to costs relating to ligting, water, vandalism and the provision of welfare facilities.

Wobbly, firstly the councellor stated that no decision over the length of any lease has been decided but that 21 years is a normal length of time for such as lease. But for the purposes of your argument we will proceed on that basis. Your figures are based on a full size artificial pitch if you care to look at the proposals you will see that the EB lions pitch is approx half the size of a full size pitch and so your figures should be roughly halved. Your figures are based on an average lifespan of the pitch. It is likely that the Rye will get less  than average use compared to a town centre facility. Therefore surface replacement will probably be needed just once in your 21 year lease period. As for rejuvenation, if a pitch is maintained well the need for this decreases but let us assume it needs it once in the time period as it gets less than average use. Further the Lions proposal indicates that routine maintenance will be undertaken by the club so the annual maintenance costs do not exist.
That gives us £75,000 for the new surface and £30,000 for possible rejuvenation a total of £105,000 which is somewhat less than your figure. If you care to study the EB lions proposal which you clearly have not done you will see that they have made provision to set aside a sum of £73,500 over your 21 years for this purpose. Clearly there is a small shortfall but they point out this can be raised by bank loans, operating surpluses or other fund raising.

The short answer then is that EB lions is responsible for the entire maintenance cost and this fantastic facility is provided at no cost to the taxpayer indeed, you even make on the deal via the rent.
The electricity costs are borne by the football club, there is no water and by welfare facilities i assume you mean toilets, there is no requirement for these.

i would urge you to read their proposals as it will put your mind to rest on a lot of your concerns.

Bernie,
If something incorrect is posted it should be corrected and i believe that it has been removed from their website. Therefore action has been taken to rectify it.
I think the costs of the application were paid by the football club.
The PC represent all their parishioners and should act in the best interests of the majority not the individual.

Nimbys

The posting on the Lions site was on 24/10/12.It was removed on 06/11/12.This was after the PC Meeting on the 5th.
I was told by Central Beds that they had asked for it to be removed on the 6th.
There is nothing to sugest that the PC took any action at all.
As you say the PC represent all the parishioners in Eaton Bray.If you feel that the Lions are the majority in this case I think your maths is on a par with my spelling.

They still have it on their facebook page . And they are still begging for money. I thought you had to have the money in place before you made a planning application.

Anon
You do not need to have any money to make a planning application. In domestic terms planning approval lasts for years so one can obtain approval and build when you have the money.

Bernie
are you suggesting that the majority are against? Can you back that up with any facts? The public consultation seems to suggest the opposite

Not at all.
Figures from Central Beds show more in favour by about 3 to 1.
Not seen any figures from PC but I understand that majority are in favour.
From Central Beds figures you will see a good percentage of the people come from outside Eaton Bray.
In your posting 1408 you say that the PC represent all the parishioners and should act in the best interests of the majority and not the individual.
The population of Eaton Bray are the majority.Should they lose access to their Village Green because they have not put pen to paper or emailed authorities?

Are you from Eaton Bray?

Bernie
firstly, they are not losing access to their green. About a fifth of the total area of the green will be enclosed. Leaving 4/5 for you to enjoy as presumably you always have done. How often do you use the green?
As i understand it the astroturf area will be available for use by other than the football club but it will have to be booked in advance.
If the majority as you suggest have not put pen to paper perhaps that is because they dont care or are happy with the situation. You see, i can read into this whatever i want just as you have done. The facts are that a majority of those that were concerned enough to reply have decided overwhelmingly in favour. Thats democracy for you!

Ha ha wondered how long it would be before you asked me where i lived. To answer you, yes. I neither wrote in favour or against. I merely want to point out that a lot of opposition is based on heresay and inaccuracies.

Have used the green for many years both for playing and watching football and going back, cricket.
These days I go up probably once or twice a week for a walk or to watch the Lions play.
Unless you have prior knowledge of the lease that is to be given you can't say how much of the green will go.
I asked where you lived to see if you knew the geography of the green to which you still haven't replied.
Do you think that the latset opposition is based on heresay,inaccuracies or a posting on the Lions website saying planning had been granted.

My position on this project is that I would like to see it go ahead.
My opposition is to its location.
Its not for any Village Green.

Thought I'd post this as you have made your position clear Nimbys.

Sorry
Just reread your post as to your location.
Reading as good as my spelling.

Nimby this is what i read into your comments. you live nowhere near this proposed site so therefore you will not be affected by the noise ,lights, and you have not looked at where the people who were asked for their comments come from. What is the point  of asking someone from luton .

Anon
this just confirms what i have previously stated. you do not know where i live and similarly i do not know where you live. Regardless of where you live i dont think you will be affected by 'noise, lights' the nearest dwelling to this proposed pitch is approx 34 mtrs away across a road. The proposal shows that additional trees will be planted as a noise barrier adjacent to the road which will also be landscaped. The pitch will most likely get most use in the winter when, unless you like sub zero barbeques, most people will be indoors and unable to hear any noise. Light spill at that distance will be barely noticeable (you should look in to the specifications you will be pleasantly suprised).
As far as the comments are concerned (there was only 1 from Luton. South Beds have clearly done this before and presumably followed whatever system is in place to canvass opinions if that  system has been followed then your arguments are irrelevant.

One final piece of advise, if you insult someone who is engaging in healthy free speech you lose credability.

Bernie
Good someone who is not irrational.
I think the problem is the lack of possible sites for the pitch. It has to have access for the build and for the eventual users. I can see why you think it should not be placed on a village green but this is not a unique situation, Edlesborough have tennis courts on their green and they are enclosed. The important thing is that there are sufficient safeguards in place. Now, i know we dont know the details of any lease but it is highly unlikely that the PC will not retain ownership of the green and the football club will merely be tenants. There is no need for the football club to lease the entire green and i doubt that will happen. The councillor made that quite clear in the radio broadcast. The thing is the village green will always be there and at some point in the future this pitch can be returned to grass if required. I believe there floodlights there when Eaton bray Fc were in the south midland league and in the 40/50s there were enclosed tennis courts there? These have structures have largely gone and the green has reverted to its present condition, which is bit run down lets be honest.

Nimby do you mean credibility ?

Anon Yes i do, shall i explain what it means?

Are you aware that the flood lights that used to be used were only used once a week until 9pm.  EB Lions wants to use their all weather football pitch seven days a week until 10pm. A slight difference I think.  It is also very different comparing an all weather , 2 five a side football pitches to a tennis court.  Would you like to be less than 20 metres away from this development?  In addition the listed buildings opposite the green cannot have double glazing so the noise will be intrusive even when you are inside.  

Ruth
Whilst property might 20mtrs from the pitch no building is less than 20mtrs from the proposed pitch. The nearest dwelling is 34mtrs from the edge of the new pitch. You really do need to stop the hyperbole as it undermines your argument.
The point i was making was that floodlights and an enclosure on the green are not without precedent here in terms of siting them on a designated village green.
For the reasons i have previously given i do not think the noise will be intrusive.

While the idea of improving facilities at the Village Green is a good idea , the provision of just football facility is of poor judgement. The area has the potential to provide so much more for the youth of the village.  If Eaton Bray Lions was a team solely of village children it would be fair. However the team is constructed of players from outside the village .  

Julian
This facility can be used for other sports and the football club have offered the use of it to local schools as part of their curriculum p.e. lessons. as the closest school is Eaton Bray there is, if the offer is taken up, that many Eaton Bray children can use the pitch.
With regard to just EB children using it. I am sure in your everyday life that you access services provided by other local authorities.

Julian
Sorry forgot to put this in my other comment. You mention the area could provide so much more for the youth, what did you have in mind?

From the boundary of the property to the boundary of the green is aproximately 13 metres.  Indeed the proposed sighting from edge of the all weather pitch to the front door will be approximately 33 metres.  I suggest you pace this out opposite the all weather courts in Dunstable and then decide whether this would be an acceptable distance if it was your house.  Don't forget the planned openings are seven days a week until 10pm at night.

Ruth
Good you agree approx with my measurements so its not within 20mtrs. The Dunstable facilty is not a good comparator it is at least 3 times the size requiring considerably more lights which are on taller masts. The tennis courts in Edlesbrough are more representative although their lights are old and do not conform to new standards. There are many houses here closer than the one you refer to.

You mention in one of your ealier comments
"This facility can be used for other sports and the football club have offered the use of it to local schools as part of their curriculum p.e. lessons. as the closest school is Eaton Bray there is, if the offer is taken up, that many Eaton Bray children can use the pitch"
What other sports are planned to be used on this facility? I dont believe the facility has been designed to cater for any other sports.
how would you suggest school children travel to the site? and under what supervision?
As the school has a perfectly good playing field next to them, why would they take up the offer.

Further, to my other comment on maintenance costs. Why do you say the facility will be lightly used? With EB lions having so many players they should be able to fill it every night.

Furthermore, you state no toilets are needed. What happens if they do need to go? how will schools use the site without these facilities, changing rooms / showers etc.

Light pollution or nuisance, involves several associated problems: light nuisance (the unwelcome intrusion of light from nearby premises, epscially into bedrooms), sky-glow (damage to the night sky environment above), and glare, which causes discomfort and may be a hazard to road users and pedestrians.

Until April 2006, victims of light related nuisance have one action open to them, they may take a civil action in private nuisance out against the offender, where they will have to prove the existence of the nuisance (usually defined as an adverse state of affairs interfering with an individuals use and enjoyment of his/her property). Such actions have been successful, e.g. Bonwick vs Brighton and Hove Council (2000) and the more recent Bacon case (2004). After April 2006, all victims may complain to their local Environmental Health Office (at their local council), or take an action themselves in the Magistrate's Court. See the Journal of the British Astronomical Association [pdf file] for more on the new law.

for more information on lighting and the law, please enter details below:

http://www.britastro.org/dark-skies/law.html

Wobbly
your post #1441
I did not say lightly used i said 'less than average use' compared to a town centre facility that might be used during the day and all day weekends. Times for use will be contained in any lease agreed with the football club and whilst i know what the football club have in their proposal as regards usage i would not be at all suprised if restrictions were placed on weekend use.
Toilets are not needed and are not part of the proposal. I would imagine that any p.e lessons would be of relatively short duration and the kids will have to go before and hold it if the later want to go! Primary school kids never shower after p.e

Wobbly
your post #1440
There are no other sports 'planned' to use the pitch. However, this is a substitute for grass that is its essence therefore at primary school level any sport played on grass could take place here.
As far as how the kids get there that is down to the school to arrange the point is that it is available if they want to use it.
You ask why they would want to use it as they have a 'perfectly good playing field next to them' for exactly the same reason as the football club want it. In the winter grass pitches are often waterlogged, muddy or damaged by using them. Have you actually read and understood why the football club want this?

Wobbly
your post #1442
All very interesting but it has to be legally be a nuisance before it is actionable. The information provided by your link leads me to think that the proposed lighting scheme will be 'legal'.
Once again i urge you to read the detailed lighting appendix attached to the proposal rather than just cutting and pasting something from the internet which you seem to think just by its very existence proves whatever point it is you are trying to make.

post 1441,

Toilets are not needed.
You can not expect children to go before and hold it till they get back, were not living in the 50's. As the facility would be used by all ages, changing and washing facilities would also be required on the site. As part of the Football Foundations grant application, it clearly says changing facilities are required and should be included in the initial scheme. This makes me think the £50,000 verbally offered to EB Lions comes with a number of conditions which can not be met at present.

post 1440,

As with post 1441, the school would have a duty of care to look after the children using the facility. Without toilets, drinking water etc the schools would not be able to use the facility.  

Would the parents of the children want the school to use the site?

Are you a parent? would you want your child to play sport where no welfare provisions are provided?

post 1445,

This post was just to highlight the fact that light nuisance shall be generated from the flood lights which will effect the houses surrounding the facility and the traffic flow along the road.

As you say, this action can not be taken until the site is built. This would make the parish liable for any future legal action taken against the facility.

Wobbly #1446
not true

Wobbly #1448
again not true.

it would be up to the school whether or not they would use it based on their own risk assessment as it is for all outside activities.

My kids often undertake sport where there are no specific welfare provisions as you put it. In my experience children never shower at the sporting location always at home. As regards water a sensible person takes their own always.

Wobbly #1449
once again not true.

There is no presumption that this will be a nuisance. In fact the evidence, which you have not read, is quite the contrary.Therefore no one will be affected by the lighting.
As i have suggested look at the tennis courts in Edlesborough. Whilst their lighting is old and not up to modern standards the light spill is minimal and would not affect the house you refer to if they were sited at the Rye. Whilst the pitch will be larger it will not be so much larger as to make it disproportionate for comparison purposes as would the astro in Dunstable

 I urge people to go to Dunstable 5 a side all weather pitches in the evening and experience the realites of what this proposal entails.  The 5 a side pitches are undertaken by 10 a side players.  Therefore each game can have up to 20 players which equates to 40 children on two 5 a side pitches. (there will be two 5 a side pitches in Eaton Bray) With this level of activity cars were parked with parents sitting in them waiting for their children with others parked waiting for the next session.  Traffic problems associated with this were horrific.  Cars were parked on the road so that they could watch their children playing.  I can appreciate why no changing rooms are required because people(adults) turned up and changed in the open. Any one who goes along there and experiences the noise, lights, parking and its associated problems will appreciate why I object to the EB Lions development.
 This is a village which is having a town activity brought to it which is wrong. Please please go along and see it firsthand.

I would ask people to go on the Bedfordshire Central Website and look at the report by the planners that recommend the EB Lions development. Here you get a very clear idea of what is intended.   This can be viewed in the agenda items for the meeting next Wednesday. AGENDA ITEM 20 page 241 states:
The Parish Council have agreed to enter into a Section 106 agreement to ensure that prior written consent is sought from the Council should any other event (including football matches on the grass pitch) take place on the Green simultaneously whilst the all weather sports is in use.
Think about it.

here's the document link referred to by Ruth in #1455 centralbedfordshire.gov.uk/modgov/documents/s38678/item 20 12.01812 Report.pdf

Sinclair
I have been up to the Dunstable astro facility on many occasions, probably more than you have and i do not recognise the picture you paint.To describe the traffic as horrific is just another example of the hyperbole you people seem to revel in. Whilst i dont doubt adults were changing there the EB lions facility is primarily for children who will not be changing. As i have previously said to compare the 2 is pitches is misleading. The Dunstable astro is 3 times the size and consequently will attract more users. The average size of an EB Lions team is around 11 a team meaning that at any given time half the number you mention will be using the Rye.

Ruth #1455
this is not another of your x files conspiracy theories is it?

Have you actually read the document?

Ruth
Of course i have unlike yourself and some of your supporters. 8 days ago you were still claiming that the football club want to operate the facility 7 days a week until 10pm. The document you refer to and claim to have read clearly shows that this is false as is many other so called 'facts' you bandy around.
i really dont see the problem with the section 106 agreement and would have thought this provides you with some safeguards. I too urge everyone to read it, without prejudice, and see for themselves the spin that has been applied by the opponents.

Nimbys re 1424
Sorry for the delay.

Edlesborough Tennis Courts are on the new part of the green aquired c1970s. Don't know if this part is registered as Village green. Don't think it does it any credit.
The PC are charged with running Eaton Bray Green and are not owners.
The floodlights are at the bottom of the green and never did cast a light to the road or any dwellings.
Tennis courts were open to all and as such were not locked during the day.
The PC were charged with the running of the green and the state of it is down to them.

Just looking through the posts and see that precedent is mentioned.
If precedent was any factor is this case the project would have been rejected long before it got to this stage.

We have a large green area in the middle of the village in the park at school lane. I think it would be a good idea to register this as a village green in exchange for de-registering the rye village green as the Rye is not used, except by the kids football team. The Rye could then be developed for social housing which is so much needed in Eaton Bray and surrounding areas.

#1464 Having been a youngster at the time I can assure you that the tennis courts on the Rye were locked during the day and having been kicked off them, were for members only.

Terry
You may be right about the tennis courts,I don't know. My info came from a lady who was also a youngster at the time.
I do remember being kicked off the football pitch at times and that wasn't private either.
Being kicked off stuff was just something that happened back then.

Bernie,
Yeah, also got kicked off the cricket table but then there was the rest of the green to play on without spoiling that small patch needed for an organised cricket match. Youngsters also got kicked out of the goal mouths when they were muddy but I also recall the football club lending youngsters balls to play with. The only problem with the tennis club is you got kicked out because you were not a member.

Terry
Like I said you may be right about the tennis courts.
I know your right about the rest and do remember on many occasions being lent a ball to play with at the bottom of the green in the old training goals but in this case its a bit different.
The council want to lease the green for a period of over 20 years which would see them saving a good bit of money.If the Lions take on the upkeep of the green I would think that they would want to lease all of it.
The new pitch would be locked and unless you were playing for the Lions you would not be able to use the facility unless you paid.
Its a private enterprise from the Village Green.

Bernie
#1470 I am afraid that is not entirely correct. The football club will only be leasing the ground below the structure of the new pitch. The remainder of the green, 4/5 of it would remain exactly as it is now.There is no need or desire to lease the entire green. The football club have also indicated that there would be some community use that could be enshrined in any lease but from what i understand fees might be nominal for village use. However, if use is made of the lights i think it only fair that payment is made. I surely dont have to explain to you the necessity of locking the facility do i?

Bernie
#1464 My reference to Edlesborough tennis courts was solely in relation to the lighting. There is a house 18mtrs from their floodlights, now whilst i accept that the building is end on if you stand there you will see that the lights have very impact. When we consider that the nearest dwelling to the Rye proposal is 33/34 mtrs way this is one of the reasons why i maintain that there will be no light nuisance either to house or the road.

As for that part of Edlesborough green only being there since the 1970's all i can say is that i remember the open grass area being there before that but i am not aware of its legal status at that time.

Bernie
#1468 You see Bernie this one of my big gripes about the opposition. Whoever you have spoken to has stated that the tennis courts were never locked yet Terry has indicated that in fact they were. Further, others have argued that there cannot be any enclosures on a village green but there appears to have been one and further more it was locked. This was my reference to precedent. It is the factual inaccuracies that i cant just let go by without challenge.

Village Halls are permitted enclosers on a village green and are locked and can be used by local groups,with permission.

Nimbys
I have no doubt that Terry remembers it being locked just as I don't doubt the lady I spoke to says it wasn't.People remember different things from their younger days and I have often been told I am wrong.
The precedent I was talking about is the enclosure of the football pitch in the 80s which went to court.I think this was the start of the demise of the green and football club.The pitch was still accessable yet it was judged unlawful.
Didn't agree with it then and still don't.

Terry

Think that Village Halls are a different case.We have had a building of one kind or another on the green since it was given to the village.Use at the start was for storage and laterley for changing rooms and the more social side of sport.

Bernie

The original pavillion was changing rooms and a small area were you could watch what was going on.It was a village facility but was locked when not in use.
If planning permission is not granted this morning then the Rye will reain underused and the council will contiue to maintain play equipment which each year goes rusty through lack of use.

Terry

Not sure the original pavillion was big enough to change in but I accept what you say.
Think the Committee meeting was yesterday but have not heard the result.
I admit the green is underused as all funding has gone to school lane and there is a need for facilities at the Rye.
Build it without the fencing and lights and I'd be happy.

Bernie #1484
One is not going to spend £200,000 on a pitch and then leave it open to any passing vandals or not be able to use it after 4pm for 5 months of the year because there is no light.
thats unrealistic

Bernie
#1481. not sure from you post what it is you did not agree with. But i think it demonstrates that opposition to these schemes can have undesirable side effects. The question is do we want the green to be used or left as it is for the few who use it as a toilet for their dogs.

Nimbys
1481 was in response to 1474.

Would have thought that all the fencing and electrical cable would be a bigger target for the vandals.
Thought that the Lions had been using mobile lights for training but may be wrong.
As there are no toilets for the plan it may now be that it won't only be the dogs relieving themselves.

Bernie

The fencing would not be  much good if it was not vandal proof. I doubt very much that the kids will be allowed 'number 2's' at the Rye!

Too many nettles up there for number 2's

You can bet they will want a bit more of the recreation ground in a few years time, and the parish council will allow it. What do they care it will save them the job of maintaining it,a job they seem to have neglected for may years.

i meant to say many. Still cant see how it benefits the community in any way

Can i ask who censors these comments?

Why do you want to know that ?

nimby i thought you knew everything

Disgusted
You ask why i want to know. If this is meant to be free speech i would like to know who is doing the censoring, for whom and using what guidelines. Now i'm not suggesting this is the case here but you could have a censor who opposes a certain viewpoint and deletes comments that disagree with their point of view.
I am glad you feel that i know everything it means that i can argue my corner well but i'm afraid i have to disappoint you on that score.

By the way i understand that planning permission was granted today.

no need to gloat nimby it is another nail in the coffin of our village.

Disgusted. I dont gloat. Please explain to me (and use as many words as you like) why you think this is a 'nail in the coffin of our village'

Interesting pc meeting last night. Recreation ground was nearly last on the agenda,did they expect us all to go home before that. Or am i being cynical.?

Well, if it is past your bedtime, maybe!

There goes another rib

I cannot believe that the people of these villages are so against doing something for the kids. I grew up in Edlesborough and i can assure you that every child of my age would of voted for a astro turf pitch.
I challenge the parents of this village to come up with 3 activities your children can do on a daily bases, without any help.

As for vandalism this argument is ridiculous, this is a peaceful village and children need to be trusted.

Although the skate park was an improvement this is the only thing the council have built in 21 years.

Everyone needs to think about the responsibility they have to ensure the children enjoy their childhoods. Not the small personal issues it would create, as in lighting and parking.

Some fascinating letters in the LBO this week regarding the Rye.

I never realised it was such a Mecca for dog walkers.

I guess this means the training pitch won't be built now? Shame for the hundreds of kids who would make proper use of it, but at least the Rye will retain it's "dog toilet of the village" status.

Yes villager, and it's funny how the dogs can only use the little bit the kids want to play on not the other 3+acres.

If i had a dog what better place to walk it. Thinking of getting one why not.

This is obviouisly going to cost a pretty penny for something which is not open for the majority of the village community, unlike the skatepark. The rye carpark is also quite small. If the carpark was full, parents may be inclined to park on the road close to the Rye turning. I think most of us can agree that this turning is dangerous enough without parked cars and families crossing the road. Surely the money would be better spent doing up the tatty club house, returfing the exsisting pitch or even replacing the old rusty play equiptment?

Not seen many OAP,s using the skatepark.Perhaps you should look at the play equipment which seemed to me recently painted and in good working order.Ispoke to a parent who had brought his two small children to play, he thought it was great,a nice and quiet area of which nobody seemed aware.He also thought the AWP was agood idea.

The clubhouse was in good condition when I played football for the village some years ago, but was severely neglected during the 2000's and allowed to fall into disrepair,

[Rest of comment removed by Parish Council for failing to meet guidelines]

It is a bit unfair to blame any one person for the downfall of the clubhouse. It had been going downhill for many years. I used to go and watch the football on a saturday and go in for a beer afterwards, if anything the majority of the players did not support it , most of them went straight home after a game. Therfore depriving the club of much needed funds.

Does this mean that another two apple trees will be destroyed or are they going to be replaced elsewhere?
This is a dilemma for me; I agree that all weather facilities are great for kids and will keep them occupied and away from electronics, instead socialising and learning how to 'win'. But on the other hand it would mean the destruction of more natural habitats and greenery, something we cannot afford to agree with or carry out. The surrounds of our village are what make this such a great place to live. Visit other 'towns' (how long will that take) and see the devastating impact of over development. I am not saying that is certain to happen, I am saying that we need to stop it from happening!

Issues that haven't been addressed
1) The Rye is public land and cannot be enclosed.
2) Lack of car parking facilities at both locations
3) Lack of toilet or changing facilities - the FA recommended guidance notes state that these facilities must be available.